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Summary

In this episode of Chattinn Cyber, Marc Schein welcomes back Ken Rashbaum, a partner at Barton LLP and a professor at Fordham Law School. Ken, a well-respected privacy attorney, shares his journey from being a trial lawyer and prosecutor to becoming a leading figure in data protection and cybersecurity. He discusses how his early work in healthcare law, particularly with the introduction of HIPAA, paved the way for his focus on privacy and cybersecurity on a global scale.

Their chat shifts to the current landscape of data protection regulations in the U.S. Ken explains the fragmented nature of these laws, which primarily exist at the state level, with only limited federal regulations in healthcare and children’s information. He expresses skepticism about significant changes in federal regulation following the recent presidential election, highlighting the philosophical divide between the two major political parties regarding privacy legislation. Ken emphasizes that voters are increasingly concerned about the privacy and security of their personal information, which complicates the regulatory landscape.

Marc and Ken then delve into the importance of cybersecurity provisions in contracts, particularly for midsize businesses. Ken argues that simply stating compliance with applicable laws is insufficient due to the evolving nature of cybersecurity regulations. He advocates for more detailed cybersecurity requirements in contracts to provide clarity and certainty for all parties involved. Ken also addresses the challenges small and mid-sized businesses face when negotiating contracts with larger corporations, suggesting that they assess risks and consider mitigation strategies, such as implementing multi-factor authentication.

The discussion also touches on the implications of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for businesses that may not operate in Europe but have customers there. Ken advises that companies should be aware of their obligations under GDPR if they market to EU residents, as the global nature of the internet makes it difficult to avoid these regulations. He stresses the importance of transparency and understanding the data protection implications of using artificial intelligence in business agreements, given the rapid development of AI technology.

Finally, Ken highlights the need for continuous learning in the field of cybersecurity and data protection, urging professionals to stay updated on current changes and adapt to the evolving needs of businesses. He concludes by encouraging open communication and collaboration between legal advisors and businesses to ensure that contracts are tailored to meet the specific needs and risks of each party. The episode wraps up with Ken sharing his contact information and resources for listeners seeking further guidance on these critical issues.

Key Points

1. Fragmented Data Protection Regulations: Ken explains the current state of data protection laws in the U.S., highlighting the lack of comprehensive federal regulations outside of healthcare and children’s information. He notes that most regulations exist at the state level, leading to a complex and inconsistent legal landscape.
2. Importance of Detailed Cybersecurity Provisions in Contracts: The conversation emphasizes that simply stating compliance with applicable laws in contracts is insufficient. Ken advocates for including specific cybersecurity requirements to provide clarity and certainty for all parties involved, especially given the evolving nature of cybersecurity regulations.
3. Challenges for Midsize Businesses: Ken discusses the difficulties that small and midsize businesses face when negotiating contracts with larger corporations. He suggests that these businesses assess their risks and consider mitigation strategies, such as implementing cybersecurity measures like multi-factor authentication.
4. Implications of GDPR: The podcast addresses the relevance of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for businesses that may not operate in Europe but have customers there. Ken advises that companies should be aware of their obligations under GDPR if they market to EU residents, as the global nature of the internet makes compliance necessary.
5. Continuous Learning and Adaptation: Ken stresses the importance of continuous learning in the field of cybersecurity and data protection. He encourages professionals to stay updated on current changes and to maintain open communication with businesses to tailor contracts to their specific needs and risks.

Key Quotes

1. On the State of Data Protection Laws: “We only have national data protection law in the U.S. in healthcare, for public companies, and children’s information. Everything else is at the state level, and the states very much want to keep that prerogative.”
2. On Cybersecurity Provisions in Contracts: “When you say parties are going to meet applicable law, a good response to that question is, what does that even mean? The law is all over the place… it differs from state to state, from country to country, from industry to industry.”
3. On GDPR Compliance: “Generally speaking, they are subject to the GDPR if they are marketing to customers who are residents of the European Union… any time you throw up a website, you are basically marketing globally.”
4. On Continuous Learning in Cybersecurity: “Working in this space requires a dedication to continuous learning… too many advisors think that they are, you know, like Moses with tablets coming down from Mount Sinai. You really have to keep up with current changes.”

About Our Guest

Kenneth N. Rashbaum is a distinguished legal expert specializing in privacy, cybersecurity, and e-discovery, advising multinational corporations, financial services, and life sciences organizations on the complexities of electronic information management. With extensive experience in information governance, he ensures compliance with federal, state, and international laws while navigating the legal and regulatory challenges of e-commerce. Ken is adept at preparing and negotiating technology contracts, including service level and license agreements, and provides guidance on privacy and cyber liability insurance applications. He leads assessments and remediation initiatives for data breaches, develops social media compliance policies, and represents clients in federal and state investigations. An internationally recognized thought leader in electronic discovery, Ken has served as national e-discovery counsel for major pharmaceutical companies and has contributed to legislative efforts in New Jersey regarding privacy and cybersecurity laws. He is also an Adjunct Professor of Law at Fordham University School of Law and has previously taught at Hofstra University. Prior to joining Barton, Ken was a senior litigation partner at Sedgwick LLP, where he co-chaired the E-Discovery, Compliance, and Data Management Practice Groups.

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About Our Host

National co-chair of the Cyber Center for Excellence, Marc Schein, CIC,CLCS is also a Risk Management Consultant at Marsh McLennan. He assists clients by customizing comprehensive commercial insurance programs that minimize the burden of financial loss through cost effective transfer of risk. By conducting a Total Cost of Risk (TCoR) assessment, he can determine any gaps in coverage. As part of an effective risk management insurance team, Marc collaborates with senior risk consultants, certified insurance counselors, and expert underwriters to examine the adequacy of existing client programs and develop customized solutions to transfer risk, improve coverage and minimize premiums.

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In this episode of Chattinn Cyber, Marc Schein is chattin’ with Jeremy Shockett, a prominent figure in cybersecurity and former co-chair of the New York State Cyber Security Advisory Board. Mark introduces Jeremy, emphasizing his extensive background, including his previous role as a prosecutor. This introduction sets the stage for a discussion centered on cybersecurity practices, particularly the significance of tabletop and red team exercises in enhancing organizational preparedness against cyber threats.

Jeremy shares his professional journey, detailing his transition from a 24-year career as a prosecutor to his appointment by the governor of New York as the deputy secretary for public safety, where he oversees cybersecurity initiatives. He elaborates on the role of the New York State Cyber Security Advisory Board, which comprises leaders from both public and private sectors. This board advises the governor on cybersecurity policies and plays a crucial role in responding to real-time threats, highlighting the collaborative effort required to address cybersecurity challenges effectively.

The discussion then delves into the differences between tabletop exercises and red team exercises. Jeremy explains that tabletop exercises are hypothetical scenarios where participants discuss responses to simulated threats, helping organizations identify decision-making processes and vulnerabilities. In contrast, red team exercises involve actual simulated attacks conducted by hired experts to test an organization’s defenses in real-time. This distinction underscores the unique purposes and methodologies of each exercise type, emphasizing their importance in a comprehensive cybersecurity strategy.

Jeremy offers practical recommendations for conducting these exercises, advising organizations to start with tabletop exercises to establish decision-making frameworks and identify vulnerabilities before progressing to red team exercises. He outlines key takeaways from both types of exercises, such as understanding strategic decision-making, clarifying roles and responsibilities, and evaluating communication strategies. For red team exercises, he highlights the importance of identifying specific vulnerabilities and assessing the effectiveness of social engineering defenses, providing valuable insights for organizations looking to strengthen their cybersecurity posture.

The conversation concludes with Jeremy sharing a memorable experience from a tabletop exercise where he played the role of the governor. He emphasizes the importance of asking critical questions that challenge the status quo and drive effective responses to threats. Reflecting on his career transition from Miami to New York, Jeremy expresses gratitude for the opportunities he has encountered, reinforcing the value of preparedness and collaboration in the ever-evolving field of cybersecurity.

Key Points

1. Importance of Preparedness: The discussion emphasizes the necessity of conducting both tabletop and red team exercises to prepare organizations for potential cyber threats. These exercises help identify vulnerabilities and establish effective response strategies.
2. Differences Between Exercise Types: Jeremy clearly distinguishes between tabletop exercises, which are discussion-based and focus on hypothetical scenarios, and red team exercises, which involve real-time simulated attacks. Understanding these differences is crucial for organizations to implement effective cybersecurity training.
3. Sequential Approach to Exercises: Jeremy recommends that organizations conduct tabletop exercises first to develop decision-making processes and identify weaknesses before moving on to red team exercises. This sequential approach enhances the effectiveness of the overall cybersecurity strategy.
4. Key Takeaways from Exercises: The conversation highlights critical insights gained from both types of exercises, such as understanding roles and responsibilities, evaluating communication strategies, and identifying specific vulnerabilities in defenses. These takeaways are essential for improving organizational resilience.
5. Leadership and Inquiry: Jeremy shares a personal anecdote about a tabletop exercise where he played the role of the governor, underscoring the importance of leadership and asking challenging questions. This approach fosters a culture of inquiry that can lead to more effective crisis management and decision-making in cybersecurity scenarios.

Key Quotes

1. “Part of public safety is cybersecurity. And part of that job is to be the co-chair of the Cybersecurity Advisory Board.”
2. “A tabletop exercise is a hypothetical. It’s a pretend threat… you work through in a systematic way how the entity… is going to respond to it.”
3. “My advice would be the tabletop exercise goes first. You get a real sense of who should be making decisions.”
4. “You get to learn about your communication strategy… how do you deal with your clients? How do you deal with maybe the press?”
5. “You can ask a question. Why can’t we fix this within an hour? The people of the state of New York need… fill in the blank.”

About Our Guest

Jeremy Shockett is a shareholder at Anderson Kill’s New York office, where he co-chairs the White Collar Defense group and is a member of the Corporate and Commercial Litigation practice. With extensive experience representing individuals and corporations before various federal agencies, including the DOJ and SEC, Jeremy has a strong background in pre-trial investigations and court proceedings. He previously served as the Deputy Secretary for Public Safety in New York, overseeing public safety and homeland security initiatives, and co-chaired the New York State Cybersecurity Advisory Board. His prior roles include Chief of the Trial Division at the Bronx County District Attorney’s Office, where he led over 200 prosecutors, and Special Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Organized Crime and Gangs Section. Jeremy is also an accomplished lecturer and trainer, having taught law enforcement and legal professionals both domestically and internationally. Outside of his professional pursuits, he has a passion for poker, which he enjoys discussing.

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About Our Host

National co-chair of the Cyber Center for Excellence, Marc Schein, CIC,CLCS is also a Risk Management Consultant at Marsh McLennan. He assists clients by customizing comprehensive commercial insurance programs that minimize the burden of financial loss through cost effective transfer of risk. By conducting a Total Cost of Risk (TCoR) assessment, he can determine any gaps in coverage. As part of an effective risk management insurance team, Marc collaborates with senior risk consultants, certified insurance counselors, and expert underwriters to examine the adequacy of existing client programs and develop customized solutions to transfer risk, improve coverage and minimize premiums.

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Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 10:36 — 14.6MB)

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Summary

In this episode of Chattinn Cyber, Marc Schein is chattin’ with Gideon Hazam, a renowned expert in spoofing. The discussion revolves around the challenges faced by organizations in detecting and protecting against phishing attacks on their brands.

Gideon explains that his company spent six months meeting with Chief Information Security Officers (CISOs) from various industries to understand their main challenges related to phishing attacks. They identified three major challenges: detecting phishing attacks quickly, identifying the users exposed to these attacks, and finding ways to protect them.

To address these challenges, Gideon’s company developed a platform that has gained popularity and is now being implemented across sectors and organizations worldwide. The platform helps organizations detect phishing attacks on their customers quickly, identify the users at risk, and implement measures to protect them.

He then goes on to explain the connection between spoofing and phishing. Phishing is the platform used to conduct a cyber takeover, where attackers create fake websites to harvest credentials or steal money. Spoofing, on the other hand, is the technique used to generate these phishing attacks. It involves using spoofing tools to create fake websites or clone existing ones.

The conversation then delves into the susceptibility of different industries to spoofing attacks. Gideon explains that any organization with an online presence and customer interaction is a potential target for hackers. However, industries related to finance and money are particularly vulnerable due to the potential for financial manipulation and theft.

The discussion also touches upon the lifecycle of a phishing attack. It starts with building the phishing site, which is then detected and ideally taken down. However, the exposure window remains until the site is successfully removed. Even after takedown, the harvested credentials can still be exploited, posing a continued threat to organizations.

Gideon predicts that spoofing attacks will become more prevalent in the corporate world due to the increasing reliance on online activities and the availability of numerous spoofing tools in the market. He emphasizes the need for authentication solutions to ensure users are visiting legitimate websites and not falling victim to imposter sites.

The conversation provides valuable insights into the challenges posed by spoofing and phishing attacks, the connection between the two, and the need for robust authentication measures to protect against these threats. The discussion highlights the importance of detecting attacks quickly, identifying at-risk users, and implementing effective protection measures to safeguard organizations and their customers.

Key Points

• Organizations face three major challenges when it comes to phishing attacks on their brands: detecting attacks quickly, identifying exposed users, and protecting them.
• Spoofing is the technique used to generate phishing attacks, where attackers create fake websites or clone existing ones.
• Any organization with an online presence and customer interaction is a potential target for spoofing attacks, with industries related to finance being particularly vulnerable.
• The lifecycle of a phishing attack involves building the phishing site, detecting it, and ideally taking it down. However, even after takedown, the harvested credentials can still be exploited.
• The prevalence of spoofing attacks is expected to increase due to the growing reliance on online activities and the availability of easy-to-use spoofing tools in the market.

Key Quotes

• “Phishing is basically the platform to conduct a counter takeover in one hand. I will build a phishing site in order to harvest as many credentials as possible of any anyone. And secondly, I can use phishing to steal money. Simple as that.”
• “The interesting part is that any firm, any organization that has online presence, which require interaction between end user and customer is a target for the hackers, because if they can use their tools to harvest credentials, that would anywhere on each industry or niche…”
• “Detection and takedown … are the two major points. But takedown may take days may take weeks. Sometimes it takes even longer. And until the point that this site is down, the customers, the end users are still exposed.”
• “The more online activities become, the more spoofing attack will be there. Because this is a huge surface for attackers to exploit … The number of … spoofing tools [that] exist today in the market is numerous.”

About Our Guest

Gideon Hazam is an accomplished senior sales and business professional with a wealth of experience in business operations, development, and strategic sales, complemented by strong technology and managerial skills. As the co-founder and Chief Operation & Security Officer of Memcyco, he leads the charge in addressing a critical cyber blind spot: brand impersonation attacks that jeopardize both companies and their customers. With a unique ability to analyze complex business challenges and devise effective strategies, Gideon emphasizes the importance of protecting users from the rising tide of phishing and social engineering attacks. His extensive background in corporate development and global sales, combined with a collaborative and creative leadership style, positions him as a key player in the cybersecurity landscape. Passionate about safeguarding consumers in an evolving threat environment, Gideon is eager to engage in discussions about enhancing online protection measures against the ever-growing onslaught of cyber threats.

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National co-chair of the Cyber Center for Excellence, Marc Schein, CIC,CLCS is also a Risk Management Consultant at Marsh McLennan. He assists clients by customizing comprehensive commercial insurance programs that minimize the burden of financial loss through cost effective transfer of risk. By conducting a Total Cost of Risk (TCoR) assessment, he can determine any gaps in coverage. As part of an effective risk management insurance team, Marc collaborates with senior risk consultants, certified insurance counselors, and expert underwriters to examine the adequacy of existing client programs and develop customized solutions to transfer risk, improve coverage and minimize premiums.

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Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 19:51 — 27.3MB)

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Summary

In this episode, Marc Schein is chattin’ with Christiaan Durdaller, a cyber expert and founder of an innovative wholesale brokerage in the cyber market. Christiaan chats about his journey into the cyber industry, highlighting the rise of cyber awareness in recent years due to high-profile data breaches.

Christiaan explains the difference between retail brokers and wholesale brokers. Retail brokers work directly with clients, while wholesale brokers partner with retail brokers to provide market access and expertise. Christiaan emphasizes the importance of collaboration and problem-solving in the wholesale brokerage industry.

The conversation then shifts to the success of Christiaan’s brokerage, which has consistently won awards in the cyber community. Christiaan attributes this success to the firm’s dedication to product development, innovation, and expertise in cyber insurance claims.

The chat also touches on a major merger that Christiaan’s brokerage is undergoing. Christiaan explains that the merger aims to combine the best aspects of both companies and create a unified team with a focus on collaboration and providing the best resources and services to clients.

Christiaan discusses some unique products offered by his brokerage, including a cyber access facility and a crime 360 facility. These products address specific risks in the marketplace and provide clients with broader coverage and higher limits. The chat concludes with a discussion on the current state of the cyber insurance market. Christiaan notes that the market is currently in a softening phase, with renewal rates decreasing and coverage broadening. However, he also highlights the rising attritional losses, non-breach privacy litigation, and the impact of systemic risks on the market.

Overall, this episode provides insights into Christiaan Durdaller’s journey in the cyber industry, the success of his brokerage, and the current trends and challenges in the cyber insurance market.

Key Quotes

• “I was working at a law firm at the time, personal lines, insurance, defense, and looked at Cyber and said, this is interesting. This is something worth investing in. Not a lot of people are investing in it today. It’s a Fortune 50, Fortune 100 product, generally speaking. Let’s figure out a way to create change. It was really exciting for me and it’s been exciting since.”
• “There are a lot of folks out there with claims experts and talent, but very few that have the expertise of a cyber dedicated wholesale broken claims unit. It’s something we’re super proud of.”
• “We want to make larger limits available to them and make it available to them quick. We’ve got a lot of clients out there, as an example, who are in a class of business who can only procure 2 million or 3 million on a primary basis in limits. And you know, we’ve got to get support for them to build what their contracts require, to build what the risk models are saying that they should carry.”
• “Change is coming … It’s only a matter of time.”

Key Takeaways

1. Importance of Collaboration in Wholesale Brokerage. Christiaan emphasizes the importance of collaboration between wholesale brokers and retail brokers to provide market access, expertise, and solutions to clients. This collaborative approach helps address the specific needs of clients in the cyber insurance market.
2. Merger and Unified Team. The merger discussed in the conversation aims to combine the strengths of two companies and create a unified team. This unified team will focus on collaboration, providing the best resources, and delivering consistent services to clients.
3. Market Trends and Challenges. The conversation touches upon the current state of the cyber insurance market, including the softening market conditions, broadening coverage, rising attritional losses, and the impact of systemic risks. These trends pose challenges and opportunities for insurers and require adaptation and innovation in product offerings and risk management strategies.
4. Innovation and Product Development. Christiaan emphasizes the importance of innovation and product development in the cyber insurance market. He discusses the unique products offered by his brokerage, such as the cyber access facility and the crime 360 facility, which address specific risks and provide broader coverage options. This highlights the need for continuous innovation and the development of tailored solutions to meet the evolving needs of clients in the cyber insurance industry.

About Our Guest

As President and CEO of INSUREtrust’s, Christiaan focuses on their Cyber Secure Platform, products, and overarching strategy. As a key part of their leadership team, Christiaan strategizes to help ensure that INSUREtrust products, services, and solutions stay ahead of the market and competition. His team was recognized internationally by Zywave as the 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 Cyber Brokering Team of the Year. In 2018, Christiaan was recognized by the industry as the Cyber Risk Industry Person of the Year (USA) and 2020, 2021 and 2022 saw Christiaan recognized by Insurance Business America as a Top Specialist Broker. Since 2021, Christiaan has been a part of the Forbes Business Council due to his forward-thinking leadership within the cyber space.

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About Our Host

National co-chair of the Cyber Center for Excellence, Marc Schein, CIC,CLCS is also a Risk Management Consultant at Marsh McLennan. He assists clients by customizing comprehensive commercial insurance programs that minimize the burden of financial loss through cost effective transfer of risk. By conducting a Total Cost of Risk (TCoR) assessment, he can determine any gaps in coverage. As part of an effective risk management insurance team, Marc collaborates with senior risk consultants, certified insurance counselors, and expert underwriters to examine the adequacy of existing client programs and develop customized solutions to transfer risk, improve coverage and minimize premiums.

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Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 9:47 — 13.5MB)

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Summary

In this episode Marc Schein is chattin’ with Jeremy Boerger, an IT Asset Management (ITAM) expert. Jeremy recounts his entry into ITAM during the Y2K era, where he was tasked with managing compliance systems for a manufacturing firm. This experience sparked his interest in ITAM, which revolves around optimizing an organization’s hardware and software investments for maximum value. He emphasizes ITAM’s focus on cost-consciousness and usability, highlighting its role in efficient product and service utilization.

The discussion dives deeper into the essence of ITAM, explaining its significance in the cybersecurity realm. Jeremy stresses the importance of collaboration between ITAM and cybersecurity teams, citing industry standards like those recommended by NIST and the Department of Defense. He suggests that ITAM’s asset management functions, such as inventory tracking and usage monitoring, are integral to bolstering organizational security measures.

Jeremy acknowledges the historical challenges in establishing ITAM best practices but mentions ISO/IEC 19770 as a leading framework. He also links ITAM’s principles to new cybersecurity regulations, particularly those proposed by the SEC. These regulations emphasize managing end-of-life assets, data disposal, and leveraging returns from decommissioned hardware and software, areas where ITAM plays a crucial role.

As the conversation wraps up, Marc and Jeremy discuss avenues for further engagement and collaboration. Jeremy directs interested parties to his website and LinkedIn profile, where he shares insights on ITAM and cybersecurity integration. The dialogue underscores the evolving landscape of ITAM, its symbiotic relationship with cybersecurity practices, and the potential for synergistic collaboration to enhance organizational resilience and security posture.

Key Takeaways

• IT Asset Management (ITAM) helps organizations manage their hardware and software assets to get the most value and utility out of them. It helps control costs and track assets.
• ITAM and cybersecurity should work together. Knowing what devices and software are in the environment helps cybersecurity track potential threats.
• Best practices for ITAM can be found in ISO standards, ITIL, and NIST frameworks. Organizations like the ISO are bringing ITAM and cybersecurity together.
• The SEC is encouraging more asset management to track hardware, software, and data, especially at end of life. This helps control cyber risks.
• ITAM can notify cybersecurity when hardware and software changes, so they can update their threat models. Collaboration between the teams is important.

Key Quotes

• 00:51 – “If you remember back in Y2K, back at the turn of the century […] I had been brought into a small manufacturing firm to help with their Y2K results, a lot of it being swapping out old systems for compliance systems and the like.”
• 03:35 – “What I have seen from the other side of the fence is that cybersecurity professionals tend to look at their work in […] silo [as a] very separate activity when there’s all of this wonderful data and technique and knowledge that probably doesn’t get tapped into as well as it should have.”
• 06:09 – “Where is the hardware and software and most importantly, the data that is sitting inside that hardware and software? What do you do with it at the end of its lifecycle? And that’s been typically something that cybersecurity folks don’t really pay much attention to.”
• 06:37 – “Well, asset management is very concerned about that endgame because there’s money to be had. There are services to be had. If you’re not going to reuse that device or reissue those licenses, then what kind of return cash can you bring into the organization to then fund another investiture?”
• “But I also encourage folks to reach out on LinkedIn as well. We’ve got a very active newsletter community speak on a great length about some of the new initiatives, licensing schemes, threat, and even techniques on how to mitigate some of these asset concerns that then do bleed into cybersecurity and service management.” (08:24)

About Our Guest

Jeremy Boerger helps companies build and rehabilitate their IT asset management (ITAM) practices, both hardware and software asset management (SAM), recovering almost 10% of the IT department’s budget. In 2017, he founded Boerger Consulting, LLC, to better help business leaders and decision-makers fully realize the promises a properly-functioning ITAM and SAM programs can deliver. He tours the country, speaking at numerous conventions and symposiums. He is also the author of Rethinking Information Technology Asset Management,” available through Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, or wherever you prefer to purchase your eBooks and paperbacks.

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ABOUT OUR HOST:

National co-chair of the Cyber Center for Excellence, Marc Schein, CIC,CLCS is also a Risk Management Consultant at Marsh McLennan. He assists clients by customizing comprehensive commercial insurance programs that minimize the burden of financial loss through cost effective transfer of risk. By conducting a Total Cost of Risk (TCoR) assessment, he can determine any gaps in coverage. As part of an effective risk management insurance team, Marc collaborates with senior risk consultants, certified insurance counselors, and expert underwriters to examine the adequacy of existing client programs and develop customized solutions to transfer risk, improve coverage and minimize premiums.

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